Parentship & Power-Sharing: Ending Executive Loneliness | The BizTech Pulse Podcast

Krishna Hari (00:05)
Our guest today is Steliana Economu — an executive coach, TED Talk speaker, bestselling author. Her latest is a leadership guide for families and teens, while her debut,

Mothers as Leaders received The Global WIN Conference Award for contribution to feminine leadership. With over two decades in leadership development at companies like Nike, Vodafone and Shell International, Steliana has coached leaders from more than 20 nationalities and delivered over 10,000 hours of leadership training on 5 continents — from Lagos to

Calgary, Houston to London, and all the way to Tokyo in Japan. Her coaching expertise lies in systematic team coaching — a method where the CEO receives coaching together with the leadership team and their key stakeholders. Today, she is mentor coach for the Rice Doerr Leadership Institute, and she manages the coaching practice Mothers as Leaders.

Originally from a small village in Romania — Black Sea coast, Steliana’s journey began in a pre-internet era. Since 2006, she lived and worked in 4 countries — Romania, the Netherlands, England, and now in the US. Steliana, welcome to the show!

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (01:33)
Thank you for inviting me, Krishna. It’s a pleasure to talk to you always, and also a pleasure to connect with the listeners on this podcast. I always have an affinity with the technology and finance world. I studied finance — believe it or not, and my first university was math.

Unfortunately, I didn’t follow it, but I am fascinated. I want to be surrounded by people in this field. And thank you so much for inviting me.

Krishna Hari (01:59)
Sure, sure. Thank you. Thank you, When I met you first and heard that you are an author of a book, it’s in my mind, writing a book and running a marathon, it’s a long haul. It’s not an easy task that everyone can do, right? I think to start with, my question, the first question is,

You have a rich career in leadership development and executive coaching. What first drew you to this field and what keeps you inspired today?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (02:29)
Hmm

I there is this, I always had this fascination with human behavior — even as a child. I wanted to study groups. I always was curious what motivated people to do one thing and not the other thing. And when I was in university already, I joined an organization called AIESEC. And when I had the opportunity to become trained at

at one of the trainers, I thought this is my field. I can help people who are shy and not confident to become the best version of themselves and to do things they couldn’t do before. And I can do that just by asking questions and being encouraging. It felt natural. So it’s nice to be in a field where your natural way of being fits with what’s needed.

Krishna Hari (03:10)
Thanks

Absolutely, absolutely. It’s very critical to know where your strengths are and help yourself as well as your clients in the whole process. That’s a great answer. And I think many executives struggle with balancing high performance work with personal life. What patterns do you most often see in leaders you coach?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (03:37)
There is a sense of high standards. You can imagine, ⁓ leaders — men, women — who come for coaching, they have one quality, which is very high sense of self-actualization. Otherwise they wouldn’t pay money to become a better person. And that comes with a downside — It comes with very high setting, high expectations of yourself; high bar and feeling that you’re never good enough.

which, you know, some people call it imposter syndrome, some people call it ambition. It’s good until at some point it gets you — through your 20s, through your 30s — you, you’re great at education. So this is what the leaders come from. They are great. They study hard, work hard. They achieve and achieve and achieve. And then what happens is the pattern I’m seeing is you get in the age of late 30s-40s where just achieving more is not enough.

And I recognized that in myself, by the way, when I was at Shell. And suddenly you tick all your boxes and somehow you still feel empty and you still want more. And then you have to ask yourself, what am I missing? Is it life all about achieving and achieving standards? Or is it about knowing yourself and how you can serve the world? So what I find that a lot of leaders who come for coaching have high standards.

and they impose those high standards on themselves — but even worse sometimes, on their family, and on all the people they work for — and when you don’t reach those standards, first of all you’re upset on yourself — the inner critic is super high — but you don’t want to show that, and you show that sometimes by being very critical on the average, “for their own good.” So that creates sometimes a tension because people feel they can never live up to your expectations

Krishna Hari (05:09)
you

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (05:23)
— and people around you — family, team — think, “…when is it going to be enough?” And one of the first things I’m trying to do with the leaders I coach is — empathy to yourself, kindness with yourself and appreciate yourself for who you are, unconditional love. All the achievements are bonus.

Krishna Hari (05:39)
Absolutely, you nailed it. I think I totally agree there. And also I think in most of the leaders at the top are very alone. I mean, they need someone to bring these aspects out, right? And having an executive coach like you definitely makes that part of it come out.

The next question is… Yeah, go ahead, sorry.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (05:59)
Yeah.

You said the word “alone”. I’m sorry to jump on it because it triggers something in me when you said “alone”. And I realized actually that many, many years ago in my first leadership role ever, what scared me most was the loneliness. I was very ambitious and I wanted to become the president, and it was very hard to be voted. You had 50 people, politics — you know, it was everywhere — and rounds and I finally, I got there.

And I remember the first month going to the former president and saying, “It’s horrible. It’s lonely. My friends don’t want to talk to me. They want to talk to me only when they want something because I had to approve their travels.” And this was when I was 20, and I’m still reflecting on that. Now, as I’m a coach on the other side, I’m thinking, how can I help the leaders carry that loneliness?

Krishna Hari (06:50)
I’m just double clicking on that same aspect. What should a typical leader do to get away from that particular mentality — in the sense, I mean, is it the peers — having similar peers — sharing some thoughts and stuff like that? Or… What is your solution for that?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (07:08)
because it’s not… I wouldn’t say it’s a fix at all. I wish I was that leader — “I have a book, ‘Solve Loneliness’.” I think the immediate thing you need to consider is — how do you feel when you’re alone with yourself? That’s when you realize that, going back to that self-confidence, how do you put that loneliness to use?

Sadness, loneliness — these could be “bad” emotions and we can say “We don’t want them… We need to be happy, enthusiastic”, but they have a place. Loneliness brings reflection, and leaders need reflection. They need to be the ones that kind of sometimes sit in the back and think “What’s happening here, what’s happening in the environment?” and rather than running away from loneliness, my solution, my advice is always

Krishna Hari (07:38)
That’s true.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (07:52)
— for leaders and again, I’m the CEO of my own company — is to journal. Don’t let those thoughts wear you out. Try to put it on paper. I mean, I’m a writer, so I decided to journal every day when I wake up, and I have lots of thoughts, I have a pen and paper next to my bed and just jot some things down. The moment those thoughts are — transparent, they become ideas. Not everybody has to write a book.

But it will help you later in life. And of course, I’ll give you the advice that my mentor gave me when I was 30 and Shell — my dear mentor, Hong Meng — it was very good advice. He said, “Steliana, what are you doing at 6.30 in the office? Get a life.” And I was laughing because I was so obsessed with my career that I was not investing enough time in hobbies, in life beyond career management.

The other advice is find a hobby. I tell it to my husband — he also has a leadership role. Do something that you can be happy, brings you joy. So it compensates for the loneliness.

Krishna Hari (08:49)
Happy.

It’s a good point. Good point. I think, yeah. Coming back to that hobby, yeah, we all have some hobbies like golf and going out with friends, and any sports you play for fun, which has… So, yeah, I totally am with you. I mean, literally de-stresses you and then you go into a different world.

Right. Coming to the next question — coming to your ‘Parentship’ book, you connect parenting with leadership. What inspired you to explore this intersection?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (09:23)
It was… I think I was searching for an answer for a couple of years. I had published my first book, ‘Mothers as Leaders’. And in the pandemic, it was a hot topic because suddenly all the mothers found themselves at home and I started to receive invitations for employee resource groups with Salesforce, Microsoft, Renault.

Krishna Hari (09:31)
Mm-hmm.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (09:44)
“We don’t know how to motivate moms — they are like have to do it all. Everybody’s working from home.” So I was invited to a panel by Salesforce, and the panel had men and women. And I was supposed to talk about ‘Mothers as Leaders’, but it got very heated. It’s come from, you know, emotion … it was very emotional. And some of the men — Dutch men — they’re “Yeah but, I do a lot of stuff at home as well. It’s not just my wife and I, are partners.

And it’s a team and it’s hard now, but it’s not just Mothers as Leaders. Men contribute too.” And I put a challenge to the group and I said, “How about the children? This is a hardship in your team at work — when there’s a crisis — you gather the team and say, “What are we doing? Are we doing the same in our families? Are we telling our kids to step up?”

I don’t know, pick up the dishes. You know, if they’re 10, they clean up after themselves. Do more chores in the house. Is it just you delivering services like a five-star hotel to the children or are you all chipping in? There was silence. And some people said, “…Yeah, but you know … child labor.” I said, “Okay, I grew up on a farm. So we all had to work and do our stuff during crisis.” And somehow that tense conversation

triggered something in me, and I thought, “Okay, something that I think it’s a common sense, it’s not common sense in this Western modern society.” So there was a first week. I thought, obviously I have to research this. So I interviewed, I interviewed women from France. I interviewed men CEOs from Mexico, from Brazil, from Romania, from the Netherlands, just because I thought.

Krishna Hari (11:21)
Yeah.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (11:22)
Are you thinking the same? Do you think a family should be a team and both, everybody needs to chip in? Or do you think that it’s only the parents who hold the power — or the moms? It was interesting to have that perspective. And of course, what happens when you have 20 interviews, you have this big piece of research and you realize — ⁓ I’m onto something here and it’s needed. I feel our society needs to invest in the most important cell

Krishna Hari (11:24)
Thank ⁓

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (11:50)
in our society. And that’s the family. When a client came to me for coaching, he said, “…my team is fine. They’re great. They’re young. I bill them. They’re successful. It’s my 4 year old that gives me trouble.” I’m not kidding you. That was his coaching goal. He said, “I want to be able to say stuff to him and to listen. He drives me crazy. And I have two other girls in the house. I go crazy. I work from home.”

So it’s the intersectionality of how you influence at home, how you are a leader at home, but how can you be a leader at work and how can you deal with the conflict. That’s something that I explored in this book.

Krishna Hari (12:25)
Amazing, amazing. Yeah, you bring a lot of good points. How do you think organizations can benefit from recognizing the leadership skills parents naturally develop?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (12:37)
So — going back to family — we’re great at conflict in families, right? Because we care. There is a sense of commitment. There is a sense of trust because everybody loves each other. And sometimes that’s why you scream at each other — because the love and trust will be there. And yes, maybe as a parent you argue, “No, I don’t want to do this.” Just last night I had a discussion with my husband.

“No, we’re not doing this yet …” — because you have these arguments and you’re feisty. The decision that you make, you’re united, you’re committed. And that’s what I think organizations should learn — be able to have constructive conflicts before making decisions, putting enough trust, commitment, respect and love they have for each other so that when they make that decision, there’s no “behind closed doors.”

There’s too much politics. If a conflict happens in the room, you don’t have a grapevine. And this is where our biggest problem I find exists at the moment in big organizations — politeness at the board level, fights underneath.

Krishna Hari (13:33)
Thanks

Agree, agree. Actually, both of your books challenge the traditional view of leadership. What is the biggest misconception you want readers to let go of?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (13:47)
I think the biggest misconception is of the idea of leadership. And let me explain what I mean by that. When we say the word “leadership”, if you are in a certain part of the world, sometimes you start having pictures of leaders — most of the time male figures. I’m sorry, but that’s how our history taught us. It feels like those pictures of leaders — Kennedy, Queen Elizabeth.

Krishna Hari (14:06)
Mm-hmm.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (14:12)
Winston Churchill, they are humans. Leadership is not held in one person. We talk about the triangle. Leadership is formed — it’s shared leadership in a triangle — where, need a character — a strong leader. You need followers who are willing to listen. And you need a…

mission, vision, purpose that is burning now. Now when one of those elements of a triangle is missing this is falling. So you see people who are influencers — they have a lot of followers — but the problem is a lot of times the vision is not clear. So you have you know

Krishna Hari (14:36)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (14:51)
the new famous people around, but are they leaders? Not all of them. Then you have strong characters, but if they don’t have followers, people call them, “Yeah, he’s just shouting to the woods. He’s a great activist.”, right? If you have a vision, but you are not able to execute it for strong character, again, you’re not doing anything. So for me, the biggest idea that I want to promote in the book is: In the teams and in the families,

“Share power, Gain love.” That’s what I say. Sounds very if you share the power as a parent, as a leader — if you share the power — you teach, you allow your children, people in the team, maybe your partners to step up. So the idea of the shared leadership is extremely important. And that’s what I wanted to bring in the book. If you don’t teach your children to step up, God forbid that when you get older and you’re sick.

Krishna Hari (15:23)
you

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (15:41)
and they have to team up to take care of you or make a decision about your operation, you better not be sure they got the teaming-up and they got the leadership skills. Because if you failed in developing those skills in them and they still argue and they feel like they can’t make decisions, they feel, “But Dad knew this”, then you think, okay, I held power to myself too much. Or “Mom knows this”. I mean, it depends on the family, right?

Krishna Hari (15:51)
That’s true.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (16:06)
So “shared leadership” is something that I mean by Parentship.

Krishna Hari (16:10)
Well said, well said. mean, no, that’s one of the things which comes strongly in that book. I remember. And also bringing the family as a team, to play to the strengths of each team member and things like that. There are a few things to take away, which I had from that book. Very well written. I would recommend that book to everyone who wants to.

have a very good team-playing, leadership development skill among the family members, I would say. Going to the next one, think regarding your, this is regarding your TED talk and public voice. You have spoken on global stages, including TED How did preparing for a tech talk differ from your other speaking experiences?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (16:56)
I’d say it was the most transformational experience. I recommend it to everyone. For me, it was less about being on the stage. I mean, if I think about it, I feel what I gained was the experience of preparing more than just being on the stage. What do I mean by that? With that you get a coach — and always say yes, by the way, because “I’m in Toastmasters, I’m done speaking. Do I need a coach?” I said, you know, be humble, take a coach.

Why is that important? Because the coach helps you bring the idea to the public. The difference between TED Talks and anything else is — that is about an idea. It’s not about you and your latest book and how smart you are — it is what does the world need and how will your idea make normal people in the street better? It’s all about the idea. You’re just the messenger — and the process of writing the speech — that’s what I enjoyed.

Krishna Hari (17:40)
Yeah.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (17:48)
He made me write the speech by myself and said, “No, this is not about you write the speech and spend 70 % of the time on writing the speech and every word that you’re having the speech, you need to feel it in your stomach.” So we rehearse the emotion behind each word. Cause he said, “If your voice sounds fake, that means you didn’t mean it.” That’s the power of the Ted talk — is …

Krishna Hari (18:06)
Bye.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (18:14)
How do you bring the idea? How do you use the words scarcely? And how do you put an emotion behind every word that you put there? You can’t ChatGPT your TED talk, no. And you can’t act it. You can be the best actor. That’s not about that. It’s about living it and knowing it like a happy birthday song. Honestly — I was saying my TED speech, singing in the shower, in the house, in the car.

If you wake me up in the morning, I could recite the 10-minute Ted talk. And I think that’s what you need. If you don’t get a whole happy birthday song, you’re not ready. I mean, that’s just my perspective. And by the way…

Krishna Hari (18:42)
wow.

Actually, mean, yeah,

it’s very interesting. So how does it work in TED Talks? They assign you a coach or somebody approaches you or — how does it work?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (18:58)
Yeah, I know it’s actually a month’s process. Somebody recommends you. So in my case was in Romania, and it was, the topic was adaptability. It was also for the tech, (startup) tech industry. And, everybody comes with their own idea. So, you got a month, you have a team of speakers, a team of coaches and you pair up and you (rehearse)… Some people say “I’m busy. I’m a CEO. don’t have time for this.” And honestly, what happens to those people.

They have to get out of this list — because a day before they realize they were not ready. So first of all, start early, say yes to the coach. If you don’t like your coach, ask for a new one. And we had weekly sessions in which we together crafted the speech. Like I wrote some first version. He gave me feedback and we had rehearsals. Yeah, had to go via Zoom because it was in Romania. And I got tough feedback. If you think Toastmasters is hard, try the TED Talk coach.

I had to go back with every word, like — “It’s not the right words, say it harder.” And every time the speech became smaller and smaller — after every rehearsal, I went back and repeated the speech. So yeah, that was extremely helpful. Then you have a dry run, which is with the equipment — that’s scary. So it’s like, how does it feel to be on the stage and to walk? And of course it’s about learning it.

like a “Happy Birthday”.

Krishna Hari (20:15)
How big are your audience? mean, is it a…

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (20:18)
This was in a cinema — actually was a huge cinema. It was, was a bit weird because everybody was in the room and I’m fortunate I couldn’t travel. so we had 200, 300 people in a huge cinema with like 3D screens, all the sound and everything. Yeah. You have to be comfortable with the lights. I mean, I’ve done it in other programs, not with this TED talk. What I always do, by the way, end up being invited in a TED —

Krishna Hari (20:29)
Wow, scream.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (20:43)
Go the night before! I mean, I wasn’t there physically and even I did. I said, “I want you to do exactly, in the room with the lights.” They were very kind and nice. They’ve done the whole thing just for me. One day before saying how big you are on the screen, where my mom came. So I said, “Where’s my mom staying? Because I’m going to choke.” So think where you want the right people — your family — to stay so you don’t get nervous. Everything matters. Just be in the room like a day before. That’s one advice.

Krishna Hari (20:54)
nice

⁓ wow.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (21:10)
I can give if it’s if it’s virtual, try it. I’m excited about this. You can see I really like the TED talk.

Krishna Hari (21:12)
Great.

Very nice, very nice. Coming to the next stage, I mean, questions. This is regarding your personal journey and immigration experience. You lived and worked internationally and also experienced immigration to the U.S. — How has that shaped your worldview as a leader and a coach?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (21:34)
It was mainly that I have a better understanding and empathy of the American way of doing business. We have such a skewed view of Americans in Europe. I’m telling you. And I can tell this to all my friends — Europeans. We have no idea. We think we know America because we watch movies. It’s just different. I think I knew America because I was a manager for a…

company and half of the team was in America — I could see them on Zoom calls. No. I think being here, working here, I think you understand the values of hard work community. The value of what is — Americans are nice. And I actually enjoy that. I know that when I go back — we will go back at some point — I’ll miss that. Is this to-do (can-do) attitude?

In America, everything is possible. Yes, they are busy. They’re doing things all the time. I had to get used to it. But I think once we embrace it, there is a lot of things you can benefit. And I’m so fortunate. I had a wonderful experience. So nothing to complain. And it was the first time. I mean I moved to the Netherlands. I moved to England. And this is in America. And there is no comparison or jealousy. But I got to say, I have integrated faster here

Krishna Hari (22:31)
.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (22:44)
— than during my Dutch college.

Krishna Hari (22:44)
Okay

That’s great to know. That’s great to know. No, I think, as you said, hard work and meritocracy is recognized irrespective of where you come from. That’s one thing which is unique in America, right? I mean, if you — I don’t know whether you — you heard about this Indra Nooyi talking to a reporter in England about

why did you choose U.S. and why you didn’t come to London? Then she said, “If I had come to London, I won’t be speaking to you today.”

So.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (23:17)
think it’s spot on spot on I think so I know what you mean yes yeah

Krishna Hari (23:20)
Yeah. So that’s so powerful,

right? That message is so powerful. mean, anyway, the next question is, if you could go back and give advice to your younger self at the beginning of your career and your journey as a mother, what would you say?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (23:37)
There are two things. So to my younger version of myself, I would say, take more risks. Yeah, take more risks. I was kind of holding myself back, a strong imposter syndrome, like, I’m a non-native English speaker. So I think I held myself back a lot, watching what everybody’s doing first. So dare more; be more bold. And to my journey as a mom…

Oh, loosen up, loosen up. Oh, my first year of motherhood, I was ‘project-manager’ mom. So I learned with the second one. Ask help, ask help. I wasn’t doing that enough.

Krishna Hari (24:10)
Oh, that’s a great one, great one. So let’s move on to the rapid-fire round. I mean, this actually brings out the personal side of the guest. I mean, there is a professional side to everybody and there is a personal side. That’s an idea of having this rapid round. Are you an early bird or a night owl?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (24:30)
Night Owl.

Krishna Hari (24:31)
Okay. You are a coffee drinker or a tea drinker? Coffee or tea?

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (24:35)
Ooh, coffee.

Coffee, coffee. Well, I like tea, but okay, if I have to choose, that’d be coffee. I can’t live without coffee. Tea is pleasure.

Krishna Hari (24:43)
Okay, okay. Nice, nice. What about ⁓ one book you think everyone should read? Apart from yours, of course.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (24:44)
Tea is for the evening!

Apart from mine — “Man’s Search for Meaning”, Viktor Frankl. Oh my god, that book — even when I say it — it’s about his experience in Nazi concentration camp.

Viktor Frankl’s — is a very short book. Such a powerful story. I read it twice. It changes your perspective of life and how you take the challenges of life.

Krishna Hari (25:07)
huh.

What is the author’s name? Viktor…?

Oh, okay. Frankl. Yeah, definitely I would read that. … Name one leader who inspires you.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (25:27)
Mmm… Does it have to be present?

Krishna Hari (25:29)
Yeah, I mean, anyway, it can be present. can be past as well.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (25:31)
Okay, I’m gonna be.

Okay, I have two. I don’t know why I should have, but it’s the thing — the yin and yang in me. I’ve always admired Mahatma Gandhi. You know, read his books and that influenced, his story influenced my view on leadership. His story of how he united India. But then the other part — the yang — I’m a big admirer of Alexander the Great, Alexander of Macedonia, the Great.

Krishna Hari (25:39)
⁓ okay.

Mm-hmm.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (25:56)
— Boldness and courage, and bringing the Greek civilization all over the world.

Krishna Hari (26:02)
Well, very nice, very nice. The best advice you have ever received in one sentence.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (26:09)
The best advice I ever received in one sentence. Yes, and it is from my dad. It’s on my coffee cup. He passed away and when he passed away, I gave him coffee cups with this quote. He said, “Listen to everyone, but do what you want in the end.” I translated from Romanian. sounded much better in Romania, but it’s really about always ask for opinion, but independent thinking.

Krishna Hari (26:32)
Perfect. Absolutely, absolutely. Get as many ideas or as many suggestions or as many advice, but take a finally take your call basically.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (26:42)
Yes, trust yourself to make your own call.

Krishna Hari (26:44)
Yeah. Final thoughts ⁓ to the audience, Steliana, ⁓ if you can give your final thoughts.

Steliana Van De Rijt-Economu (26:53)
I would say it’s again about the link between teams — work teams — and families. I would say really strong teams … they should feel like everything is easy if you build it on trust, shared purpose and courage to have the tough conversations. So don’t be shy, invest in those team development activities.

Invest in getting to know each other, and building the trust so that you can have tough conversations when you need to in that leadership team.

Krishna Hari (27:24)
Great, great. Thank you. Thank you very much. ⁓ Thank you for your wisdom and personal journey — to share your personal journey with us. you for joining us today, sharing your journey as an executive coach. For listeners, you can find Steliana’s book, ‘Parentship’ and ‘Mothers as Leaders’ in Amazon. You can also connect with her. We will share her.

Connection. Yeah, there’s a book which I as well read was very interesting and all family members should read that. That’s a very powerful message from heart. We hope today’s conversation inspired you to reflect on how you lead or not just work, but also in your daily life. Thank you for tuning in The BizTech Pulse. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and leave us your review.

Subscribe as you don’t want to miss future conversations with such leaders who are shaping the way we think and live. Until next time, stay curious and stay innovative. Thank you. Thank you very much.